Breaking Italy’s Wallet

Sorry, this post has been taken down.

Italian Contrepreneurs are sending lawyers, and I don’t want to waste my time defending against them.

While it costs them nothing, it costs me a lot of time and energy.

I took down all the posts that may give them something to attack. I’m sorry if that pissed you off. It pisses me off as well, it’s not fun to kill my creatures 🙁

Take a look at Ufficio Antisqualo for my general guidelines against sharks and how to identify them 😉

Ciao!

 

P.S. I had to censor some of the comments as well. Sorry for that.

33 comments

  1. Unbelievable! I checked by myself their Website… numbers and fees are there! How could somebody subscribe something like that? I think you touched an important point: “financial literacy”. Often talking to friends, I realize that people don’t look at fees: entry fee, closing fee, TER… nothing! “A friend of a friend told me it’s good… and I bought it!” Noooooooooo! Who is this guy? Why is he convinced this product is so good? Which competence has he got to say that? I know, also diversification and all the other aspects are important, but fees are the “initial” key: if you pay 3% for a product based on bonds and then a TER of 2%, it means you put 100 and in a blink you are at 95… and this is just the appetizer: one year later, after a difficult and probably unfeasible recovery, you receive the main course: -2%. TER is like a diamond” a diamond is forever” ;-). Are you tired? Do you wanna quit? “Garçon, the dessert!”: “Here it is: -4%! Closing fee!”. Rock on!

    Go on this way, MrRIP, it is important to share knowhow with people “open to learn”. And it is important to identify “money-grabbers” who are addressing young people with tricky ads and numbers. Let’s start using comments, also in your blog, to give small and clear pieces of information, with clear examples, in order to give an easy and simple explanation about pitfalls and risks in the path of the “creation of one’s own robust portfolio”.

    Take care! SirRik

    1. Thank you SirRik, I’m a bit disappointed this post didn’t get the attention I wanted it to have (maybe I should have written in Italian?)

  2. in my opinion in other European states and the US there is no real perception of the Coronavirus danger that in a short time can lead to the collapse of any health system and block the economy, it is news today that for example FCA Fiat Chrysler Automobiles has blocked completely 3 important factories in Italy, including Melfi with dramatic consequences for all companies in the automotive sector, tourism and commerce companies are in serious crisis

  3. Hi Mr. RIP, I am a small investor and I am currently investing on OM, which provides similar investing opportunities. In particular, OM relies on SmartETN. Have you ever heard about them? Do you have any specific tips about this platform? Thanks a lot for your time!

    1. If you are a small investor, it is better to stick with plain ETFs from iShare or Vanguard. I hope you really know what you are buying (ETN) and I suggest you to read a recent article from WSJ, “‘Bankrupt in Just Two Weeks’—Individual Investors Get Burned by Collapse of Complex Securities”, where they say “The pandemic-fueled economic downturn has sparked turmoil in nearly every financial market. It has taken a particularly brutal toll on investors like Mr. Mark, who wagered on the roughly $7 trillion market for structured products: complex instruments that include ETNs, options-based strategies and certificates of deposits whose returns are tied to stocks or currencies. Banks and brokerages advertised them as offering payouts both steadier and more lucrative than plain-vanilla investments such as bonds or index-tracking funds. Most professional money managers avoided them. For many less sophisticated retail buyers, the market blowup taught the kind of painful lesson that comes with just about every economic crisis: There is no such thing as an investment that is both safe and highly profitable”

      1. Thanks for the article suggestion! I’m reading it and I double down on my skepticism about ETN.

        In general, why can’t people invest in clear, simple, secure EQUITIES. I’m talking about investing, not speculating. I really don’t understand why do people want to buy derivatives for anything else than their original meaning: insurances.

        1. I think that people do not want to buy derivatives but derivatives are aggressively marketed and highly promoted by brokerage firms for the high fees.
          The most of retail investors should just focus on the only choice that really matters: the split between equity and fixed income. Then, build a portfolio with broad market index and low-cost ETFs.
          If you are an Italian investing in Milan Stock Exchange, you just need 2 ETFs:
          1- Equity: Vanguard FTSE All-World UCITS ETF (USD) Accumulating VWCE.MI (ISIN: IE00BK5BQT80)
          2- Fixed income: Vanguard Global Aggregate Bond UCITS ETF EUR Hedged Accumulating VAGF.MI (ISIN: IE00BG47KH54)
          They are quite new and relatively small (iShare has some equivalent ETFs too).
          We can replace all-world with any other regional combination (US, EU, EM…) but it does not matter so much in the long run (or better, there is no way to know in advance which combination will give the best performance). What really matter is how much equity and how much fixed income we want.

          1. Amazing comment, and nice ETF selection 🙂

            For the stocks, other valid alternatives are the distributing version of VWCE, which is VWRL (reason: 5x AUM, meaning more liquidity. In Italy Dist or Acc is the same tax-wise), the iShares alternative SWDA which has another 5x factor more assets under management.

            For the bonds, the VAGF ETF is very young and I don’t have a mature enough opinion about it. Thanks for the pointer though 🙂

    2. I’ve never heard about OM, and I just discovered that they invest your money using derivative products provided by a Limited Liability Company based in Ireland (smartETN), whose derivatives (ETNs) are managed by another Limited Liability Company based in UK (Cirdan), founded in 2014, with 11-50 employees.

      That’s enough to make me desire to run away close to the speed of light.

      This kind of things work well during the 364 days of the year where the Turkey thinks humans are awesome. Then Thanksgiving comes.

  4. Financial education in Italy is so low. My father has been investing with Mediolanum for 40 years and he does not understand that a TER of 2.5% can literally cost half of his wealth in the long run. I have been investing for 5 years in a portfolio 60% VUSA and 40% VEUR (I am 40), I showed him my results and gave him a bunch of articles / books on portfolio allocation with ETF and advocate for a 40/60 stock/bond portfolio but he is afraid of firing his FA (family banker) even if he costs him about 10K/year for no value. At the same time, he is constantly chasing the best bargains at the market. Insane.

    1. As I posted tonight, I’m going to address personal finance education much more in the near future. I really believe there’s a huge hole and an opportunity to have an impact there.

      I’m sorry for your father, I hope his shark is not going to suck all of his money.

      1. Thanks for your concern, RIP, and for your commitment. His FA just sold him a bunch of crappy balanced funds… not better or worse than the most of Italian second-pillar pension funds. Unfortunately, I live abroad and I cannot tackle this situation as I would.

  5. God, another youtuber, giopizzi, was sponsored and advertised G5 in his recent video “what is cyberpunk?”, I was immediately – like anyone else who doesn’t know anything about economy – teased by the possibility of accumulating small amounts of money with something so… Tempting. I’m still a hs student, so every passive fund looks like a far mirage that one day – perhaps – I’ll be able to use – but this is not that day, due to my natural lack of a good starting amount of money available -, however, I checked a bit on reddit and found a post asking about G5, the only answer linked to this thread. Wow, I really thank you for making me realize how much I have to study if I want to get even a subtle grasp of how not to get screwed and how stupid I’ve been… Well, guess I’ll put my small student savings on buoni postali which is still better than a kick in the balls and leaving excess cash I know I won’t use in a span of a few years home.

    1. Just kidding, after seeing the interest rate I concluded I’d spend my time better studying rather than subscribing buoni postali, I mean, even selling lemonade on the street in the American way would be more profitable ;D

      1. Hi Andrea, welcome to my blog!
        Comments like yours motivate me to push harder on personal finance education.
        I saw the Giopizzi video on Cyberpunk yesterday (a great video btw, I got a lot of material I want to dig thru) and when I saw the G5 sponsorship I felt the urge to raise my voice. I will do that.

        1. Please continue spreading knowledge, for a student – as well for a normal person, anyone who isn’t directly involved in finance – it’s very difficult do learn even the fondamentals do and don’t, I wouldn’t even know where to start looking for info – except for this blog and a few other sites – because browser searches are completely filled with trash sites who just promote the daily advertiser

          1. Hey Andrea, if you are looking for good resources on how to start investing, take a look at 3 very good and simple books:
            1 – The Four Pillars of Investing: Lessons for Building a Winning Portfolio by W. Bernstein
            2 – A Random Walk Down Wall Street by Malkiel
            3- The Little Book of Common Sense Investing: The Only Way to Guarantee Your Fair Share of Stock Market Returns by Bogle
            If you are Italian, you can also read them in Italian:
            1 – “I 4 pilastri dell’investimento. Lezioni per costruire un portafoglio vincente” di William J. Bernstein
            2 – “A spasso per Wall Street. Tutti i segreti per investire con successo” di Burton G. Malkiel
            3 – “Il piccolo libro dell’investimento. Un modo efficace per garantire il tuo guadagno nel mercato azionario” di John C. Bogle

  6. Hi Nicola, Thank you, I’ll read them when the library opens – or whenever I get to go to the bookshop

  7. Grazie per le tue ricerche e per averle esposte in modo (abbastanza) chiaro, anche per un profano come me. Spero che Shy rifletta bene sul da farsi.
    Rimarrò aggiornato per la guida!

    1. Shy credo/spero abbia finito le sue marchette ad AA e G5, e spero gliele abbiano anche ben pagate.

      Ancora, credo/spero che abbia capito che ha sponsorizzato monnezza, ma abbia giudicato il ritorno economico abbastanza sostanzioso e la monnezza piazzabile senza far troppi danni.

      Peccato, perché nella nostra ultima call alla domanda “RIP, ma secondo te questa roba fa proprio schifo?” io gli avevo risposto “Per giocare con due soldi, e nel breve termine, fa ‘schifetto’. Ma se veramente vuoi raccomandare questa roba a giovani che vogliono investire a lungo termine questa roba è proprio monnezza della peggiore specie”. Aveva chiuso con un “ok, adesso ho capito”. Eravamo rimasti che comunque mi faceva sapere cosa avrebbe deciso, ma alla fine un mese dopo ho visto che è andato all-in con loro ed un po’ ci sono rimasto male.

      Pazienza, spero almeno abbiano pagato bene.

      1. Davvero spero che abbiano pagato bene, però sapere questa cosa lascerà un piccola macchia nella mia opinione per Alessandro. Massima stima per lui come “giornalista” (atipico a dire il vero), ma questo non me lo sarei aspettato.

        Devo dire che trovare il tuo blog mi ha fatto molto piacere: sono ancora studente e dovranno passare diversi anni prima di potermi affacciare al mondo del lavoro, ma mi ero messo a cercare risorse sul mondo della gestione finanziaria (molto lontano dal campo dei miei studi) e direi che questo sito è una fantastica porta di ingresso.

        Ho già letto gli articoli “About RIP/me” e il “FIRE Dialogue”; non sono d’accordo su tutto quello dici (parlo di scelte di vita ovviamente, di finanza capisco ben poco) ma apprezzo molto il tuo modo di porti a 360 gradi, senza contare che il fatto ti piaccia ZeroCalcare ti fa prendere molti punti 🙂

        Unico appunto: sulla pagina “External Resource” i link Learning Journal e Learning Projects non sono attivi. Te lo segnalo anche se forse è una cosa voluta.

        Ho scritto in italiano per guadagnare in velocità e chiarezza espositiva ma se preferisci che i commenti siano il più possibile in inglese mi sforzerò, al prezzo di inevitabili sbavature linguistiche

        1. I link Learning Journal e Learning Projects non sono attivi perché non ho ancora pulito e condiviso i relativi documenti. One day I will 🙂
          E’ ok Italiano su post come questo, molto “italiani”. per il resto se commenti altrove ti chiedo gentilmente di farlo in EN 😉

          Shy per me resta molto in gamba, e continuerò a seguirlo e non perdermi i suoi video.
          Ho solo smesso di finanziarlo tramite Patreon.

          1. Nessun problema per la lingua. Mi sono reso conto ora di aver scritto “atopico” invece di atipico, non potendo editare la risposta precedente mi correggo qui 🙂

  8. Ciao RIP,

    ho letto il tuo articolo e l’ho trovato molto interessante. Il fatto che nessun altro alzi la mano su questa carta straccia è preoccupante!! Purtroppo o per fortuna investo su ETF ishares e non seguo strumenti italiani.

    Capisco che sei coinvolto emotivamente dal fatto che G5 pubblicizzi questo cibo per cani a ragazzi giovani e purtroppo senza alfabetizzazione finanziaria. Però ti devo dire che la tua critica alla gestione amministrata è un po’ gratuita e fa un attimo diminuire la tua credibilità (che comunque, fatti alla mano, è altissima). Personalmente penso che una app semplice come prova ad essere sia un po’ incompatibile con il regime dichiarativo.

    Tu lo critichi come “Classical Italian way 😉” ma se dovessi creare domani una app che permette a piccoli investitori di investire piccole somme, anche io non darei la possibilità di avere il regime dichiarativo per mantenere la massima semplicità d’uso e per non costringere i miei utenti a troppe scelte. In questo sono d’accordo con la scelta di G5.

    Per il resto, farò il possibile per tenere i soldi dei miei amici ben lontani da questi farabutti.

    Grazie per l’analisi approfondita.

    Con cordialità,

    Mitsubishi Space Gear.

    1. Ciao MSG, grazie per le belle parole 🙂

      Si, ho letto anche io che la gestione amministrata sembra essere considerata un benefit da molti (a giudicare dai thread su r/italiapersonalfinance). Io personalmente sono più hardcore e preferisco essere in controllo di tutto. Qui in Svizzera, a meno che non sia ancora con permessi di soggiorno temporanei, nssuno ti gestisce la tua fiscalità. Ti prendi il lordo e paghi le tasse come e quando vuoi, senza neanche presunzione di criminalità se commetti errori a tuo vantaggio.

      Ne approfitto ora che me lo hai segnalato per fare un errata corrige: mea culpa 🙂

  9. Ciao RIP,
    grazie per l’analisi dettagliata.
    Io ci “ero cascato” proprio in seguito alle sponsorizzazioni di Shy.

    Ci sono rimasto molto male, non tanto per Shy quanto per la faciloneria con la quale ho firmato e sottoscritto il fondo, investendoci a più riprese circa 1000€ di risparmi, nell’ottica di formare un gruzzoletto sul lungo periodo (la fiducia pressoché sconfinata che riponevo in Shy non può essere una scusante).

    La colpa ripeto, è in primis mia, che non ho letto nel dettaglio kiid e prospetto del fondo (le informazioni va detto, AA le dichiara).

    Il seme del dubbio mi è venuto qualche settimana fa quando, anche grazie a un mio crescente interesse sul mondo degli investimenti, sono ritornato sul prospetto del fondo, andando a rivederne la composizione e notando con una certa sorpresa un’esposizione non trascurabile a obbligazioni turche.

    Allora mi sono messo alla ricerca di un’analisi dettagliata dei loro fondi scoprendo con disappunto la pressoché totale assenza da parte di testate o blog di approfondimento sulla finanza italiani, fino a che non sono arrivato per caso a te 😄.

    [Kudos per la citazione a Brambilla Fumagalli]

    Ciao e grazie ancora per i tuoi contributi

    1. Fantastico, contento di averti aiutato Alessandro 🙂
      Che le informazioni AA le dichiari diciamo che è un attimo obbligatorio per legge per chi opera nei mercati altamente regolamentati come quelli della gestione del risparmio.

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